I think I’m just kind of annoyed, so I am going to ramble about it while sharing my attention with 15 Bodacious Bathrooms – a show that really deserves a rant of its own. People with slightly outdated but well-appointed bathrooms bitching about how UGLY their bathrooms are, and spending untold amounts of money to have perfectly serviceable and – in many cases – luxurious bathrooms remodeled to be uber luxurious. Ain’t that America, eh?
It’s Memorial Day and I am tired of getting emails reminding me to be American, and I am tired of seeing people reposting from each other on Facebook about what fine Americans THEY are for reposting, and if I were an American, I would repost it, TOO, because if I DON’T, then I am UN-American. I personally thanked each of the soldiers that I know, and I invited others on my friends list to do the same…as of this writing, not one of them has posted their personal “thank yous.” I’ll check again in the morning. We’ll see who’s “American.”
If we want to venture down the UN-American Freeway, let’s talk about the mosque that’s planned for ground zero. How is it even possible that this is being allowed? Doesn’t anyone remember what happened on September 11th, 2001? I do. I remember it with perfect clarity.
I remember because I worked as a travel agent for American Express, in a massive call center. Those of you that have ever worked in a call center can attest to the fact that there is always a din of activity. Conversations between cube-mates, conversations on the telephone, team meetings, etc. This place was no different, except on September 11th, 2001. Instead of the lively cacophony, it was eerily silent save for the giant TVs placed around the center to keep everyone apprised of the goings-on to the minute. I sat down in my seat, I looked at my cube-neighbor who had tears spilling from her eyes. I numbly placed my headset on and prepared myself for the first call. In terms of the workload, it was an easy day since all air travel had been halted indefinitely. Emotionally, however, it was like taking a knife to the solar plexus. My first call was from a woman asking if American Airlines flight 11 had been a non-stop flight. The nauseating irony of the question was not lost on either of us when I answered, “No, flight 11 is scheduled as a non-stop flight.” She thanked me and hung up. I could tell by the thinly veiled tone of abject despair in her voice that she already knew the answer. She knew that the person she wanted to hear from was on that flight, and that she would not be hearing from that person again. EVER.
I may have shared that experience before, but I will never stop telling it.
There are positive stories from that day, too. I remember that every rental car company was allowing cars to be rented and subsequently returned to any location, with no additional fees. Strangers were banding together and renting cars to make unplanned road trips across the nation, just to get each other home. American strangers – because that’s how we roll, in this case, LITERALLY. I helped reserve cars for those people, so I claim a tiny piece of that victory in the face of monumental tragedy.
Now, explain to me how we, as Americans, are allowing this to happen? I have read that it is intended as a “seed of peace.” I don’t buy it. There is no good reason for building a mosque in the place where radical Islamic terrorists premeditatedly killed THOUSANDS of innocent people, and subsequently destroyed TENS of THOUSANDS of lives, AMERICAN and otherwise. No “seed of peace” can grow on a plot of land that has been salted by hatred of members of the very community planting the “seed of peace.”
I don’t accept that. I find it UNACCEPTABLE. Let’s stop worrying about Arizona trying to stop people from entering this country illegally and start worrying about the illegals that actually did a substantial amount of collateral damage in the heart of the biggest city in the nation AND in the nation’s capitol. I feel that they are now claiming that land as a prize. A trophy of their offering in the name of their “religion.” I might vomit. Now, for those that might say, “I shouldn’t lump all Muslims in the same category as the radical terrorists,” I’m not. I’m saying that it is disrespectful that a mosque be built, and in the spirit of RESPECT for our nation’s loss, it shouldn’t even be considered. I place no judgement on members of that Muslim community, but I don’t believe a “seed of peace” in the form of a potential gathering spot for secret terrorist cells is appropriate. Don’t build anything. Just leave it be. It’s a war wound and should be treated as such. The immediacy of the wound has healed on the surface, but the scar left behind should be honored and revered. Not treated as something that should be covered.
Doesn’t this bother anyone else?
For all the firemen, policemen, medics, bystanders, survivors, victims and their families – I remember. I REMEMBER. It is in their memory that I write THIS post and claim back a little piece of America from the hands of those that would see it go down in flames. I REMEMBER.
God Bless America. Amen.
This is a heavy post K… this entire subject gives me mixed feelings. I see the prose and cons to this issue from both sides to the point of getting physically tired.
You mentioned not wanting to clump all muslims together
There has to be someone to blame for 9/11 (I’m not being leading, seriously there has to be, *someone* did it) and unfortunately that group turned out to be the most alien/unfamiliar group to most Americans – Muslims.
Most of us don’t want to “group them all together” as you said, but I don’t think we can help it — honestly, from our limited perspective, it all looks like the same thing/group/whatever and that’s where the unfortunate part comes in. When McVeigh’s attack went off, we never group him in the category of “Christians” and thought they were all terrorists… the idea of building a church in Oklahoma seemed complete irrelevant to his attack… but I wonder if he had bombed something over in Pakistan or Afganistan? They might respond by putting the kibosh on all Christian churches in the area because they “Breed hate of the Muslim people” — while all the other Christians on the planet are like “WTF, that was one psycho path and you condem us ALL?”
I have no love lost for backwoods hill-people in the deep south, and I’ve met people in Ireland, Egypt and India that legitimately thought “Americans were crazy religious zealouts” — just flat out assumed for whatever reason, from whatever TV show they had seen — that all Americans were like that. I sat there scratching my head… *I* thought we were super progressive and un-zealouty.
You could imagine if this were Vietnam or something and we wanted to build a church in some of the cities to help the healing process and offer guidance to folks still wheeling from the war that *we* would think we were helping, and *they* might think “What the fuck you sick bastards?! You want to rub our faces in your bullshit?!” At least I’m trying to make analogies to what is going on in New York and could see a lot of different ways to look at this.
Going back to what I said before, given what I think is *most* American’s view of Islam and Muslims, it will probably be seen as insensitive to build the mosque there because a good majority will only interpret it as the middle finger, but I wish that weren’t the case.
Islam is the 2nd largest religion on the planet — and I’d argue that a good majority of those people are good/decent people and it really is unfortunate that they all got clumped together into this “terrorist” category after 9/11.
So in summary… I probably agree that it will rub less people raw if we don’t build it there because of how most people perceive Islam/muslims/mosques, but on the flip side of that, is that really helpful to hide that away from folks as opposed to trying to encourage more education about it? God knows it will spur conversation and probably be under a microscope which brings its own benefits.
Like I said, this all makes me very tired as I argue with myself
For what it’s worth, I am not religious in any of the classic senses. I don’t affiliate with any of the major religions, didn’t grow up with it and wasn’t really around it much. I do have faith — some might say that is enough religion right there? — and believe in happiness, love and what I would label as “fate”.
I’m not making a pro-argument for this, even though my name would suggest I am. I grew up in Phoenix, my parents are from Michigan, so I’m pretty indifferent. I just don’t think strife and separation ever did anything fantastic for anyone, even though it feels good sometimes.
FWIW — I mentioned this to a friend and their *gut* reaction was also “wow, why are they building that at ground zero?”
Maybe now isn’t the right time to build this at ground zero… a lot of wounds are still fresh and this looks to a lot of folks like salt more than anything.
My post above wasn’t disagreeing with Katie, just that I think it’s too bad that this is the state we are in right now and time is likely going to be the only thing that heals it.
I just finished reading both Katie’s blog and the reply/comment that followed. I’m afraid I’m not as eloquent as either writer, but I have to say that I agree with both. It IS an exteremely BAD idea to put so inflamitory a building there. Basically, we’re telling those who did this to us that if they damage us we’ll roll over and take it and blame ourselves for their complete lack of respect for the lives of our people. In fact, we’ll HONOR thier view of things because, after all, the way to deal with those that hate us so much is to agree that we had it coming. If we do that maybe they’ll leave us alone. And that, in a nutshell, is how terrorism works. As an American, this bad idea makes my blood boil; as a deeply commited christian, I can see the offering of forgiveness. Our country will never heal without it. However, I don’t believe what is obviously a symbol of victory for them is the way to get there.
Linda,
I appreciate you giving your point of view; one that I think *a lot* of Americans share and I can’t speak to.
Your last two sentences I think nailed it spot on:
=================
… I can see the offering of forgiveness. Our country will never heal without it. However, I don’t believe what is obviously a symbol of victory for them is the way to get there.
=================
I think that’s the right point to be made — forgiveness is important, we can’t move forward without it, BUT sticking a mosque at ground-zero is almost certainly not the right way to do it.
The more I thought about this story, the more my heart strings pulled for the folks in New York involved in this directly that either died in it or lost loved ones (police, fight fighters, civilians, etc.) and I imagined them walking by a mosque at ground zero boiling with rage and frustration… even though I stand by my previous comments of “it’s too bad they all got grouped together into this ‘terrorist’ category” — I more agree with YOUR point of this being a really bad way of addressing the issue.
Very well put Linda.
Why not just leave the plot of land alone and not build anything there? Here is an example that I liken it to – I have a friend who had a cat that she loved more than life itself. The cat lost it’s footing and fell into the neighbor’s yard, and was mauled to death by the neighbor’s dogs (and her husband was mauled in the process of trying to save the cat, but his legs wounds healed). The neighbor, understandably, felt terrible about the situation and was undoubtedly prompted by guilt and showed up at her doorstep a few days later with a kitten.
The neighbor PROPER didn’t kill the cat, but felt he had to do something as an act of atonement for what his dogs did, so he felt that the kitten would be a “seed of peace.” My friend was confused by it and it made her feel awkward, but she accepted the kitten although it did NOTHING to make her feel better about the loss of her cat, and she still blamed the neighbor because he had vicious dogs.
(of course, from a legal and insurance standpoint, the neighbor was absolutely liable for the actions of his dogs, but for the purposes of this analogy, we are deliberately leaving that out and treating the dogs as though they were independent members of his “family.”)
A more appropriate response would have not been to give her a kitten, but to make sure that her husband’s wounds were tended to – at his expense – and to simply apologize for the loss of her cat. It’s okay to acknowledge an action without feeling like you have to replace what was lost, because you CAN’T.
I realize that kittens are much cuter than radical terrorists, but I hope this sort of clears up the underlying feeling of “WTF?” I simply don’t see any reason to build ANY structure there at all, let alone a mosque. It’s inappropriate. It’s not about lumping Muslims together into this bigging churning stew of hate for America, it’s simply about decorum and discretion. If it is truly about wanting to plant a “seed of peace,” then the victim’s families and those that survived the attacks should be part of the decision-making of what would make an appropriate “seed of peace” that would convey a proper sense of empathy and serve as a bridge to connect the communities.
Katie,
1. Leaving the land unbuilt I’m always fine with, so I agree on that point. Hell a park would be nice.
2. In your example you have two parties involved — dog-neighbor and cat-neighbor — I think dog-neighbor getting the cat-neighbor a kitten was a nice move given that the dog-neighbor owned the dog.
In the case of 9/11 we have 3 parties:
1. Americans (cat neighbor?)
2. Non-insane Islamic population of the world (not even a specific country — dog-neighbor).
3. Insane Islamic population of the world (again, not a specific country, but you could probably pin point 3 or 4 countries that hate us more than normal)
So #3 attacked America, most Americans see #2 and #3 as the same thing (Islam == insane people that like bombs) and in this case I’m assuming that #2 are the ones that want to build the mosque (again, probably agree it’s a bad idea).
As far as the offering of the olive branch (e.g. giving of the kitten example) #3 isn’t going to give America a kitten, cause they hate us… and #2 didn’t do anything, so they aren’t going to give us any gift either, why would they?
NOTE: I know you didn’t mean gift in the literal sense. I’m just trying to map my reply to the example.
Alternatively you could have meant that like the dog-owner was responsible for the dog and thus it’s actions, you could have meant that #2 was responsible for the group of folks in #3 above, but I don’t agree with that. Just like America isn’t sending any apology gifts to Iraq for what Blackwater does there, the middle east doesn’t owe America an apology for any shit-heads born over there plotting against us. You can’t stop shit-headery unfortunately.
All that being said, if we are destined to agree-to-disagree, I can live with that too
Bigging is not a word. I have no idea where that came from.
Okay, I’m sort of confused now. In my description, I meant that there are three parties:
1. Cat Owner (and cat) playing the part of America
2.. Vicious Dogs playing the part of radical Islamists
3. Neighbor playing part of perfectly decent Islamist having to take the brunt of the actions of radical Islamists in his community.
So, America lost life at the hands of angry Islamists, while normal Islamists are left holding a bag of guilt and shame by association, so they get a replacement kitten as an olive branch. Olive branch makes America confused and suspicious because it seems random and inappropriate because THIS olive branch, while cute and fuzzy, cannot truly replace what was lost.
Perhaps making a donation to the humane society in the memory of the deceased cat would have been more appropriate because it is an acknowledgement by the Neighbor (playing the part of the normal and equally horrified Islamist) of the tragedy, without putting the Americans in the position of being pressured into accepting something – although well-intended – that they don’t feel comfortable accepting at this point. Cat Owner (playing the part of America) may not be ready to get another cat, yet, and when they are, they want to go pick out the cat themselves as part of their own closure of the loss of the original cat.
How’s that?
Very clear, I think I munged up your previous reply. I think you are saying:
1. Nice Islamists are trying to give us a kitten (mosque) we don’t want right now.
2. They should just chill and help in a different way.
Is that it?
Oh, and I forgot to add that, again, while the kitten is cute and fuzzy, it will also have the unfortunate side effect of serving as a constant reminder of what happened to the original cat.
EXACTLY! If they are feeling called upon to help, I think pausing to reflect on what the BEST offering of help might be.
Let me make it clear that I do NOT believe that all Islamists are crazy, America-hating death machines. But building a mosque on EXACTLY that spot is awkward at best, and – in the eyes of many – an affront at worst.
UNLESS that is what the victims families feel is the best use of that plot of land.
Personally, I still don’t think anything should be built there. I mean, that’s like how we built all of downtown Tucson over the old Court Street Cemetery – yes, houses built over graves.
The ground should be blessed by a representative of every branch of every religion and treated as a grave. There should be benches and trees and a marble memorial naming the names of everyone that died that day, and nothing else.
Katie, my apologies. I totally agree with you. Thanks for taking the time to clarify.
That being said, there is no amount of discussion that could take place for you to convince me that this little fuzzy face doesn’t help the grieving process:
That’s right, I just did that.
I cannot finish a thought…I think pausing to reflect on what the BEST offering of help might be WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA.
Jeez.
I do love kittens. Have you seen my new kitteh? Her name is Dahlia.
Now I’m not saying I agree or disagree with this. I just had to add a few things that may make us look at this in a different light. First off, we are mistaking the word “near” for the word “on”. The plans are to build a complex two blocks away from the site. The issue is how close it is to ground zero not that it is on ground zero itself (because that is not the case). It is proposed to be built on private property, not part of the WTC area. Also (and understandably so) there is upset in New York, however the largest protesting is coming from complaints outside of the area. A Manhattan community board is the one backing up the proposal to begin with.
Second, it’s not a traditional mosque; it is more of a center. Its primary function is not going to be only that of a “prayer house”. Included in the center would be a “500 seat performing arts center, culinary school, swimming pool, restaurant and other amenities” Also it is expected to bring in around “500 part time jobs and 150 full time jobs”.
On Ground Zero itself there is talk for development of a landmark or memorial space; nothing “Islamic”.
The info is in the New York Times.
xoxoxo I like the kitten picture by the way. hehe
Jenn, If that is the case, then – for ME – that is really a horse of a different color. Near is fine. ON becomes problematic. I cannot draw a line in the sand on behalf of the families of the victims as far as “how close is TOO close,” but I think that if it is something not directly encroaching on the actual site, and it is for the benefit of everyone – not simply a place of worship, that changes the tone.
I just want to make sure that people don’t forget what happened. I mean, of course everyone will be able to recall what happened, but to remember how it FELT and how we reacted in an unprecedented (at least in MY lifetime) show of unity against acts of terrorism in our nation, and everyone really was united. I am sure you would agree that UNITY is something we are lacking in just about EVERYTHING these days.
We must take careful steps to never allow anything like the events of September 11th, 2001 to EVER happen again.
“Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, director of one sponsor of the project, said he understood the anguish but noted that his group condemned the 9/11 attacks, which killed members of his community and congregation as well.”
The thing we fail to remember is that American citizens who were of the Muslim religion died that day as well in the attacks. Extremists cult like misguided individuals attacked us all; the Muslim religion did not.
I do realize this was the largest attack on U.S. soil; however what about people like Tim McVeigh (as well as his friends Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier)? Tim was Roman Catholic (even through admitted lapse he still believed in the core rules and in God)…so would a Catholic church being built near the Alfred P. Murrah Building remind people of the Oklahoma City Bombing? I understand he was (a terrorist) from our country but a terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist. I’m stretching a bit I know…McVeigh did it for wacked out political reasons and revenge for Waco (but then hmmm that reaches back to the “religious” Branch Dividians now doesn’t it?).
Again 911 being the largest attack on our soil brings out the most emotion…it will forever hurt all of us. We HAVE to learn to be tolerant and take a step back and realize it’s not the “religion” or a certain “people”. I can’t understand why people overlook those of the Muslim religion (which has a huge basis of peace that has been exploited by extremists which happens in EVERY religion) that were WORKING American citizens that died that day too.
It’s sad to say but as much as we don’t want to be, we are a visual people. In the end we need to realize this and work on it; to be able to walk past a Muslim and not let our brain scream “terrorist 911″. I’m not saying this happens to everyone, but we all know it happens to a lot of people regardless if they will admit to it or not. I would ask if anyone reading this realizes they do it; to then just internalize and try fixing it. You don’t have to admit it out loud; just reflect and ask yourself “why”.
Sadly, the Muslim community pays for the 911 attacks daily. They are constantly attacked for something they didn’t do. If one day 5 Christians or Catholics (from abroad or home) go on a rampage we will then feel the same about those religions as well?
Ok I’m done sharing for now, LOL. My eyes are crossed and I’ve been in a deep reflection on a lot during the past few days; so I’m vocal. Love you all and hope you enjoyed today. Warm wishes for the rest of your week!
xoxoxo
I agree with you Katie 100%! (haha I said I was down for the count tonight but just read your reply after I entered my conclusion).
What dream I would have is to put up a center that has a focus on all religions near the site. Now how would that be?
I know I will never forget what happened that day; I still cry over it. We as a people will never forget. We just have to learn how to all bond together. It should be all religions against the extreme.
xoxoxo
(near it NOT on it…not sure if I worded that correctly I’m half asleep) xoxoxo Ok night night doll xoox
Jenn, if it’s any consolation, I WOULD think that placing a catholic church inside the Alfred Murrah building would be equally as inappropriate, in all fairness.
However, now that we have sorted out the particulars, I am feeling better. Trust me, I am as reactionary towards people who act out violently in the name of any particular religion…
The proposed center is also planned for a building and lot already being used as an Islamic meeting place and is owned by the American Society for Muslim Advancement so it isn’t really that new of a development, they are just expanding into a much larger space, which includes a mosque, as well as the other things Jenn mentioned. This isn’t something that has just moved into the neighborhood and set up shop, it has been there in some form already. Their plans don’t even have any zoning changes so they don’t need anyone’s permission for the changes. They took their plans to the Community Board of lower Manhattan not for approval but to get opinions and to let them know what is up. I think that speaks to their stated motives being sincere and the opposition being misguided xenophobia and very misplaced aggression.
I like Jenn’s idea of a center that represents and celebrates all religions near the site. Given the diversity of the victims in the 911 attack it would be very fitting and could do a lot to bring us together. Terrorism comes in all shapes, sizes and religious and political ideologies and I think it is very important to makes sure that people understand that whatever vile act is carried out in the name of a religion that people understand that the perpetrators do not speak for everyone in that religion. Without outreach, education and familiarity that will be hard to do. If there is an us vs them mentality to be had it should be US (Americans) vs THEM (terrorists) and not divide Americans up any farther than that. If we are fighting ourselves then we are just doing the terrorists jobs for them.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/07/new.york.ground.zero.mosque/index.html
So glad you are feeling better about it all Katie!!
xoxoxo Yes Patrick, how wonderful it would be to just have everyone in one place like that. They would be welcome to go in and “check out” each religion if they chose to. If they didn’t want to, at the very least…all are welcome in one building with mutual respect. It would be the ultimate peace offering. xoxoxo
Do we invite Scientology?
*moans* If we HAVE to…